Podcast Transcript
Nigel: | Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to our Living Your Faith podcast. I'm your host or co-host. I'm Nigel Maine. |
Liz: | And I'm Liz Maine. Hello. |
Nigel: | Hi. And and we are. But this is our kind of our regular spot, really. And if you've had a look at our website, you'll see where we're sitting and where we've got our drinks and we're kind of children relaxed and just wait. Basically we want to just keep the conversation going. And and it really is a conversation that we after off kind of within our 15 years of during our 15 years, you know, based on our 15 years of being believers, they these are the types of conversations that you don't get in church. |
Nigel: | I think that's the best way to put it, because everyone's on their best behavior and they don't want to talk too much, say too much, reveal too much, all this kind of stuff. And people, you don't. |
Liz: | Want to heckle the past. |
Nigel: | It down and you got you. You got to be. Did you just say that you can't really say that in church. People don't appreciate it because. Yeah, so heckling the pastors doesn't really go down particularly well. And when you challenge them, they run away. So I think so before we kind of kick off and get into the whole just the whole thing to do with this week, what I told you, you start off with a prayer. |
Liz: | Okay, Father, we thank you that you have blessed us and we thank you for this opportunity to speak to people out there about you and who you are and and how fantastic you're Lord. We just pray a blessing on everybody that is listening to this and just ask Lord in Jesus name that you touch hearts and minds. |
Nigel: | Amen. Amen. So so really, this is a this is a our ongoing conversation. And we're if you've not listened to us before, we're a married couple. We've been believers for 15 years. We've gone to lots of different churches and not don't go to church at all. But we are full on with Bible believing, born again believers. We pray regularly, as in every day. |
Nigel: | We pray every day. We do all the things that we're supposed to do or one is supposed to do. As a believer. And I mean, I suppose really for the example of this, this podcast, Facebook, Google, Facebook, we're going to touch on that in a second. This some of the things that that we've seen this week in news like to do with injections to do with a new pattern or pathogen, a new a new disease pathology is the word. |
Nigel: | Yeah. And so we've, we've got white blood clots that are being found by after people have died, we still got a sudden death. You mentioned this week about that and your health and safety, isn't it. Your safety doctor said yeah. So it's been a sudden death has become a thing. And you know, I kind of I've been looking at a lot of stuff on the news and to some online and it seems to be the the super rich, super wealthy people that have been called the elite and the certain people, the unelected people, whether it's the World Economic Forum or World Health Organization, these these people who are attempting to determine our futures are actually |
Nigel: | the people that are closest to Satan as opposed to being closest to God. And if you have people who want to eradicate five or 6 billion people off of the Earth, only a psychotic bunch of people would ever want to do that. The other thing I saw in the news was in America, since Biden has been in. |
Liz: | Office. |
Nigel: | Of just call it in office, just under 100 food processing plants have been destroyed by fire and a total of 41 and a half million chickens and turkeys have been killed as well. I didn't that didn't give any figures for cattle, but we did see one that something like 8000 cattle were killed in what was a one particular fire. |
Nigel: | So here we've got we've got a bunch of people in Davos talking about eat bugs and the flip. And then you got Bill Gates buying up more farmland than anybody else in the world. And you've got all the food, food processing plants being destroyed. It doesn't take a genius to try and to join the dots on this. And so I think that what we when we look at this, the the Bible says that we are to pray for our leaders, but don't miss be misguided about this. |
Nigel: | It's not so we can pray for our leaders to get them to stop doing what they're doing is to pray. If you've got to read the next sentence, next verse, so they'll let us lead peaceable lives, basically pray for our leaders so they'll leave us alone. Which means it's not going to change. So it's a bit like not being under any illusion that, it's all going to happen. |
Nigel: | It's all got to change, you know, all happy clappy. No, no, no, no, no, no. It's not going to change. And and part and parcel of this and this is going to come back to the thing about Facebook, of course, you know, if it's in Facebook, it must be true. Used to be read in the papers. It must be true. |
Nigel: | But I had a conversation of an exchange with somebody that was saying that when it came to baptism and that baptism wasn't necessary. So it's a bit of a problem, really, because we we've got a backdrop of I we can only describe as psychopathic behavior and dialog and talk, because if anybody thinks that that somebody can talk about eradicating billions of people and then go and buy up farmland and you have no intention of sorting out, you know, expanding the grazing cattle to to feed an ever growing population is the opposite. |
Nigel: | We want to kill you all. And so we have to look at, well, what's in store for us. And that's that's how I see I see this. That's why I feel we've we have felt compelled to do this podcast is because these people that are wielding power only because of money, but it's not because I don't see it that, look, I'm going to set up a shop. |
Nigel: | I've become phenomenally wealthy. let's go and kill everyone. I don't see as that. I see it as being preplanned, pre structured and God says this, he says this in the Bible about people's names being in the Book of life, and some of them will have them blotted out and some people's names have never will never appear in the Book of Life, which means he knows who they are, he knows who the psycho the psychos are, and they're never going to change. |
Liz: | But that's not for us to speculate who they might be. |
Nigel: | No, absolutely absurd. I mean, you know, all these you know, Bill Gates could come to repentance and go, I've got it all wrong. I don't I don't agree with my dad, who is part of Planned Parenthood and was up for eugenics and wanted to kill kill all the the black people in America. Get rid of them. I'm going to repent of that and follow Jesus. |
Nigel: | What we could we pray for that? No, I'm not being facetious as an ex partner. My business partner of mine would would say, I'm not being facetious. The bottom line is he may well repent, but there's a pregnant pause there. You know, I keep saying the same stuff again and again about what we know, what he's up to and what he's doing won't be okay. |
Nigel: | It's up to him. But it's not just him. It's a very it's a significant group of people that control most of the money in the world. I saw that. I remember that. Oxfam. |
Liz: | yeah. |
Nigel: | Graph that showed that less than 1% of the population, a fraction of 1% of the population of the population of the world ran 99% of the money in the world or something. |
Liz: | Like that, that the wealth. Yeah. Nothing you know, from just talking about, you know, the elite and how close they are to Satan and so on and so on. I think the conversation that you had online about baptism and you might think, well, that's a bit random, the baptism. But the thing is you've got and there's a lot of wrong teaching in the church that has been passed down through through the generations. |
Liz: | It's I don't know how many years, but through the generations. And people are now, you know, if where we are in end times that is not I don't think anybody unbelievable would dispute that we are absolutely 100% in in terms how you define that will come we'll talk about that another point. But but the thing is, the wrong teaching that's in the Bible is that all you have to you just have to believe that Jesus is Lord And it with Emerson. |
Liz: | There you go. You you saved. |
Nigel: | By faith alone. And initially, I mean, just to give you that, they had something. So I follow loads of stuff. I mean, for example, I'm on YouTube, I've got over a thousand things I've subscribed to on YouTube and I've got hundreds of things that I've set up or categories that I've set up. So this is to do with faith and work and audio and podcasts and filming and live streaming, you name it, Kit, everything, anything you can imagine and pretty much the same on, on, on Facebook. |
Nigel: | And I and someone made a comment and I read this comment and it it wasn't particularly clear, but they were saying along the lines of that you didn't need to get baptized. You could just just believe and bake a person. That was it. And I made a comment and said, well, you know, imagine you're watching. You think you're you're good to go with you. |
Nigel: | And we talked about this last week, about your supernatural exit. So you're getting prepped up for your supernatural exit. You get in towards the end. You know, you're going to leave soon and you leave and you get up there and a kind of tongue in cheek. So. So you actually you've got someone that's that has been drinking, fornicating, just anything you, any bad thing you can think of is whole life. |
Nigel: | And even some people that think they've been really good people their whole lives but take, take, take the person that you would look at and go kill you debt and there's no way you're going up there. So he's lying on his deathbed and he says, I've been off back. You know what? I'm not going to pass this one. |
Nigel: | I'm going to of course, I say out loud to whoever I believe in. Jesus. Yep, yep, I believe. I believe. I believe, yeah. I'll repent of what I've done in the past, thinking to himself. Well, hopefully, hopefully I can. I've said what I need to say. I don't get into heaven. |
Liz: | Or jail free. |
Nigel: | Get out of jail free card. So he pops. His clocks is up there. Peter's at the gate and he says, Are you? It's just between. Who am I? I mean, I said the prayer. No, sorry, You got the wrong, wrong address. There's not one here by that name. He says, Listen, get me Jesus in-house. Yeah, I'll pray to him. |
Nigel: | He can come down and sort this out. So Pete with a bouncer, goes back in, brings Jesus out, and Jesus looks in square, kneeling, says Biblically, Get away from me. I never knew you should pass at the prayer salvation. You if it didn't mean it didn't live like it, you you you hedged your bets your whole life and thought you could get away with it and you haven't see her and he's dragged off scripturally. |
Nigel: | That's absolutely accurate. Now we've got this this, this person, this character on Facebook and basically saying, you say to prayer, you could go, that's it. So what are you on your deathbed This is my my tuppence worth it whether you're on the on your deathbed or whether you're 25 years old thinking you got a whole life in front of you. |
Nigel: | If you think you just go, No, just say good to go and just carry on. Hang out with the people at church for a bit, maybe get married to someone and go through through your whole life thinking you could to go. And, you know, she does matter when you say it. And so the whole thing about and I was saying before, and if you all finally die, you go and Jesus said, Get away from me. |
Nigel: | Never knew what an awful thing. But but for me and my house, Liz and I, we are you know, we believe we are fully paid up members here. We had a public baptism at a church in over in Watford and Sit and we had lots of different experiences and we've done the sell group thing. We've done church every day two or every every Sunday sometimes. |
Nigel: | And anything that was going on, we would go to church. We mentioned this the other the other day and properly ensconced in it, and we'd go to these different places, you know, that that one over near where we last last lived, it was a Baptist church, a very, very well known Baptist church. And we went away with them one weekend. |
Nigel: | There was a guy there and I said, I say, you've been baptized, you get baptized there. Were you baptized? Na No, don't be baptized. Don't need to get baptized. Not all, I don't think you might say, and this is one of the most, one of the most prominent Baptism Baptist churches in the country and its own members are going to get baptized. |
Nigel: | I mean, they've got they've got a little swimming pool in front of the church underneath underneath the floorboards, because I can't call it a baptismal because they don't use it. |
Liz: | No. |
Nigel: | So so you. |
Liz: | Can just be a card carrying member of that Baptist church. You have to be and I think it's the same with all Baptist church. You have to become a member of that church, like you have to become a member of the Methodist church and you get a, you know, a membership. |
Nigel: | And it's just and and so I think that they that that the inference and I knew some people will understand we're going with this. And so so it was it quoted the message and quoted Hillsong a lot about it and it was a big long, big, long article all about just hear hear this, here's the scripture. Don't say anything about baptism, nothing about baptism, nothing about baptism. |
Nigel: | And then the second they said it was about baptism, it was about. So any unsuspecting potential believer, someone that's searching is going to read that and go, one, get baptized. What's the point? No, I'm not going to read all that. But but what people tend to do is select or take Scripture out of context, and so they end up just using. |
Nigel: | Paul didn't say that you have to get baptized here, look, but like you said the other day about this, this expectation. |
Liz: | I mean, I think the thing is, you know, you've got to look back historically to where, you know, first of all, where did infant baptism come from? And as I understand it, infant baptism was kind of instituted in the church, and that's several centuries ago. Can't exactly say when, but it was instituted in the church. They would register the baptisms, the marriages and the deaths that didn't register the births, just the baptisms. |
Liz: | So they have a baptism record and babies were normally baptized at around three weeks, something like that, and three weeks old days. And it was because primarily because there was a high mortality rate that a lot of children died. A lot of babies died. And of course, the the uneducated parents and even the educated parents didn't want their children going to either hell or purgatory or wherever they were told child will go to if it wasn't baptized. |
Liz: | And so children were were baptized. And so the whole infant baptism thing came about. And then I know because I've read this recently, well, well, I've been a believer that because I looked it up, because I was like a need to kind of understand this because when we were baptized, I remember saying to my mom, you know, we've baptized and she said, Why you were baptized. |
Liz: | You were christened as a baby. I was like, Yeah, that's not being baptized. That's dove in water sprinkled on the head. That's not the same. It's not. And at the time I couldn't kind of I didn't know really how to articulate it. I mean, I could do it now, but and her view was you're already Christian. What do you need to be? |
Liz: | What do you need to go through it all again, full and and of course, when I looked it up in baptism, I looked at it was I think it was like Catholic answers something like, Yeah. And it said, yeah, infant baptism. That's the thing, you know, And in Cornelius is how everybody was baptized and that's why we baptized infants, because infant baptism is real. |
Liz: | It's a thing. And if you're baptized as a baby, you're fine. You got to go. Well, that is not scriptural. I mean, yes, it's true that the whole of Cornelius, his household was was baptized. |
Nigel: | But it qualifies. Qualifying what call it What qualifies a person to be of the household? |
Liz: | Well, you see at that time you also have to remember and the thing is, this is the thing about the Bible. You can't just you can read the Bible and like you need to read the verses before in the verses afterwards to get the context. But there's also an historical context to the Bible. And in Roman times, again, as I understand it, children were not considered to be of any value until they were at least two years old. |
Liz: | So they weren't citizens. They had they were nothing. Yeah, you know, and if they didn't want a child, they would put it outside the city walls, in the in the wilderness or in the rock, because they didn't want to keep the child. It was as simple as that. So the child would be carried off by wolves or whatever, so a child had no value. |
Liz: | And so in those in Cornelius, his time when Peter went to and to baptize them, a baby was not considered even. And it doesn't even say it doesn't even say that there was a baby there. |
Nigel: | No. |
Liz: | Not that I can remember. It doesn't. It doesn't. And so to make that assumption to justify a Catholic claim that infant baptism is sufficient is like removing the historical context and the biblical context. It doesn't. It's just not. |
Nigel: | There. If you if you also so So we've got a church, Catholic church, saying infant baptism is okay. Adult baptism is not necessary. It's the same church that says that having a 1 to 1 relationship with Jesus is dangerous and that you should you should follow. Mary. |
Liz: | Well, I mean, the thing is, you know, you got to do what we can do one whole podcast about Catholicism, really. But I think to to kind of think about this, the whole baptism thing, because we've had this debate, we had this debate with Nigel's parents. Well, it wasn't so much a debate. I've just finished reading that and a document that we that Nigel found online and not long after we and it must have been within a few a few weeks actually of his being baptized because there's a note in the back of it that made me think it was about the same time and, and he found one of these moments and then realized |
Liz: | it was there was a series of ten sermons and it was by he's a Chinese pastor, Reverend Chung. And he was talking to the congregation, to people that were about to get baptized. And his view was very much that baptism is a sacrament. You know, it's it's crucial to our and to our confession. It's a and it's a visual, it's a spiritual. |
Liz: | It's the whole thing about being baptized is that you make that declaration before God, before the witnesses and before the enemy. You declare that you are now God, that you belong to God. And the thing is, we had this, let's say we had this debate with Nigel's parents. So Nigel was discipline them and trying to encourage them. They were both Catholics trying to encourage them. |
Liz: | And his dad said, yes, yes, I've met your missive or I have your missive. I doubt very much you read it. Now have him reread it and and then we had we had an argument about, you know, what Jesus said. And Jesus says in John three to Nicodemus that you have to be born again and you have to be born of water and of the spirit. |
Liz: | And I can give you as a spiritual reference because I've written it down, it's John three, three, two, six. And if you just bear with me a second, I will find it in my Bible because it's important that we you know, let's let's start there about whether or not we should be baptized. And it says Jesus answered and said to him, Now, bearing in mind just the context here, he he goes to all and Nicodemus comes to Jesus at night. |
Liz: | So he believes that Jesus is the son of God. Yeah. And he refers to him as rabbi, which means he evidently knew that Jesus had authority. He was a teacher. He believed in him. So he wasn't just some random bloke. And he says, Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. |
Liz: | So what does that mean? Nicodemus said to him, How can a man before, when he's old, can enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born Jesus answered, Most assuredly. I say to you, Unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit. |
Liz: | A spirit. Now, that's pretty in my mind. It's pretty conclusive that Jesus is saying you have to be born of water. Now that then this we have this debate. That's your interpretation about being baptized. But Jesus was baptized. So if we now just pop over Timothy three because I found these scriptures, because I knew we were going to talk about baptism. |
Liz: | Matthew 313 to 15. Matthew 22. |
Nigel: | That's another podcast. |
Liz: | You can watch. Matthew 22 not yeah, let's not go there right now. Let's just go off on a bit of a tangent. So Matthew three, look at the events yourselves. It says here. So John questions Jesus. He says, You know, I need to be baptized to you and are you coming to me as new? You come into me to be baptized, says John. |
Liz: | But Jesus answered and said to him, Permit it to be so. Now, for this it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he allowed him So Jesus got baptized to fulfill all righteousness, which means He knew. Jesus knew that although he was without sin, he had to be baptized. He was baptized to fulfill the righteousness of God. |
Liz: | Now, just those two, those two scriptures alone say to me, and I didn't know at the time, and we were not taught this when we became believers, but if Jesus is baptized and then Jesus says, You have to be, but you have to be born of water. |
Nigel: | And it's pretty is pretty clear. |
Liz: | That's quite clear. And the thing is, I think people make this try and make this argument about, I don't need to be baptized, but if Jesus does it and there's a reason for this, that when you are baptized, you die with Christ and you rise with Christ. Now we're no, we talked about this last week, but into Colossians. |
Liz: | The point of it is that when you are submerged in the water, you are dying with Christ. You are under the water. And the point is you are under the water effectively in the grave with Jesus. And he took on your sin in by dying on the cross and being buried in the tomb when he rose again. When we rise out of the water, all of our sin is gone because he is. |
Nigel: | But to explain our sin. Nature has died. It's gone. Yeah. So we're born with a sin. Nature. Yeah. And the Catholics call it original sin, but it's a sin nature. Yeah, it's a it's a nature of us that we recognize and we engage with and are accused of sin. And and at our demise, if we have not been baptized, we are for sin. |
Nigel: | As when we die, we still have that sin nature when we die, which means we're not going to heaven. Period. And the story? No discussion. I didn't say it's in the Bible. Don't argue with me. You can try and argue it later, but you won't get anywhere because you'll be roasting. That's that's what. That's what the Bible says. |
Nigel: | And people go, how can the Bible say that you like Stephen Fry what a capricious, nasty God and everything is. Yes, mate. Really? Yeah. Wait until you die. Wait until it happens. And then think that you're so clever that you can argue you your outfit. And people go, I'm going to hell. I'm going to have a big party down there. |
Nigel: | No, you're not Just arrogance and and and misguided, misleading and false information. And the point is, is that is that that point? The fact that your sin nature has died, has gone, has been eradicated. You've been given a new nature, which is the nature. And and there's another word for it, but the nature of Christ. So now you can't you have a you may well do things wrong in the future, but your nature is gone. |
Nigel: | Your old nature. The old man that was there, as Paul refers to it in moment, the old man of you has died. It's gone. Yep. It is a supernatural event. Yep. And if you expect a supernatural exit, you ain't get in it unless you have that supernatural event to precipitate getting into heaven. And that's what it says. |
Liz: | And the thing is, with infant baptism, what you. What you have to remember is what it says in act, what Peter says in acts, you need to repent, be baptized, and then you will receive the Holy Spirit in that order. Yes, Cornelius, Receive the Holy Spirit. And then they were baptized. And it may happen, but the standard is God, God. |
Nigel: | But the thing is, that was that was all by divine appointment. Yeah. And God can do what he likes in terms of the order of things. So when people want to get, well they got the Holy Spirit first year and then they got baptized. But the argument because when I said, well, that's great. So I got this long response, I know you're missing the point, you know, about baptism and it should be this. |
Nigel: | And I said, So you're agreeing with me. That's wonderful. And she got all upset and it's like. |
Liz: | You know, we're blocked, you know? |
Nigel: | Yeah, we are here. Yeah, yeah. Typical. But the thing is, is that the to, to understand the explicit nature of what it says in the Bible, you know, we know we always hear of people dying, people that we know close, you know, close people, acquaintances, you know, different people that we've grown up with and they've died. And it's it's really sad when you know that they have not followed this. |
Nigel: | They've never probably the only time they went to church was different people's weddings and that was it. And and people don't people are very comfortable to not go to church. They're very comfortable, too. I mean, some other stuff I saw on Facebook of, you know, a number of expletives about religion. It's like, well, yeah, that's right. The reason you all upset about religion is because someone upset you about religion, like a priest or pastor or whatever. |
Nigel: | And you can't write two fingers to you. I'm not going anymore. |
Liz: | Yeah. |
Nigel: | Job done. They have achieved what they set out to do and nobody looks at it like this. You know, I look at I don't look at pastors out there being benevolent, looking to hopefully let's get everybody into the kingdom and everything and pray them into the kingdom. You ain't praying anybody into the kingdom unless they're baptized. And a story. |
Nigel: | You're not special. None of us are. The bottom line. Every individual is responsible for their own salvation and you get yourself baptized. And then you look at how you behave. And and that's how we were talking about this earlier as our interpretation of works. |
Liz: | Yeah. I mean, the thing is about that, just what you just said there about we're responsible for our own salvation as a child, you have no real concept of sin that becomes and when you do become aware of sin, you have a sin consciousness at some point. But whatever, wherever that point is, and I guess it's different with every child, but up until that point you have no consciousness of sin. |
Liz: | So you have that sin nature, but you have no consciousness of sin. When you have that consciousness of sin, This is where the repentance side comes in. Because if you're responsible for your own salvation, the only way you can be responsible for that and able to do something about it is by repentance. And that's why Peter says to the the crowds in, you know, there's about 3000 of them. |
Liz: | I think. But in acts it says and in Acts 238 repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now that's the order. It's repent. |
Nigel: | It's not complicated. |
Liz: | And the thing is, those who fight against baptism. And I said to Nigel, you know, just ask a whitewash, so afraid of why does she not want to get why does she not want to get baptized? Because if you don't want to make that commitment, if you don't want to make that declaration, how can you expect God to to come into your life? |
Liz: | You know, it doesn't work like that. You have to repent before him and be baptized and say, I'm sorry for what I did and I am willing to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior by making this declaration. |
Nigel: | And there's this. There's also this. You know, the sin nature came as a result of the fall with Adam and Eve. And because of Satan. So everything that goes on in the world is because of Satan, everything. And you've got these daft people that think, you know how why does God allow this bad thing here to happen or that bad thing that to happen? |
Nigel: | Because Satan, this is where Satan resides? Yep, he runs the joint down here. No, nobody seems to grasp that. They think that God should step in every 5 minutes, you know, why should they just need to? |
Liz: | But and I also think what we also need to look at is, you know, there were and there were kind of prophecy is not the right word. And there were you could see where God was going with the baptism thing, right? You could see where it because there are two instances, I think there's probably more. But the two that stand out to me is Noah and the Flood and the Red Sea. |
Liz: | So and Noah, obviously the flood washed away and got rid of all of the corruption that was in on the earth. Yeah. All flesh. So it wasn't just, you know, this is another podcast, this is another thing that we've we've looked at and talked about. But if you think all flesh was corrupted, then we've got to think, well, why did God got rid of that? |
Liz: | He got it dispensed with with all of that corruption. And there. |
Nigel: | Was and it was. |
Liz: | The sons that were righteous. |
Nigel: | The corruption wasn't just someone being a little bit naughty. We're talking about splitting DNA, recreating different animals and whatever. |
Liz: | And we will talk about that because that's a really interesting topic. But in terms of the baptism that the water side of it was, you know, was was important because it washed away all this. And the other one is and Moses in the Red Sea when the Israelites left Egypt and and went from and from the |
Nigel: | Egypt's Sinai. |
Liz: | Into into. Yeah. So you know that's, that's what we have the thing. |
Nigel: | Is but the, the problem and is it's got to be seen as a problem because some people get it and some people don't and the people that don't get it invariably they are surrounded or others have influenced them into not doing it. |
Liz: | Yeah. And because tradition and the tradition is, is, you know, we follow tradition. We've heard that not so. |
Nigel: | Fast that. |
Liz: | We follow tradition. Now, the thing is with tradition, and I was I went to a sea of church, so I know about tradition. Tradition is doing the same thing week after week after week after week. That's what tradition says. And tradition says that we, you know, babies are baptized, but no, not Christians christened and then you're confirmed. And the Catholic Church, it's slightly different. |
Liz: | You take confession. |
Nigel: | To your first confession. Yeah, first communion and then confirmation in that order in the Catholic. |
Liz: | Church and that so these are traditions. These are things that traditionally we have done, but it doesn't that there's no precedent for that. There's no biblical precedence. |
Nigel: | So it says don't call anybody father. So all the father pats and father heads out there. No, don't call anybody Father. And you you confess your sins to God. God is the only one who can forgive your sins. End of story. Yep. And when you got Pope Francis saying in writing that he has more power than God on Earth, it's like, are you serious? |
Nigel: | Mean you are so anti-Christ. It's not funny, but people don't see it. So all of this stuff comes out from some bloke dressed in white within Satan's is an angel of light. So there you go. Yeah. So. So the thing about this is that there are so many there is so much deception out there, and it is deliberate because make no mistake, God wants you to start with Satan. |
Nigel: | Satan want you dead per say. Yeah, but in the in the natural He wants you to dismiss God, you know, he wants you to not follow God. He doesn't want you reading the Bible or getting some notion that you want to get baptized or whatever. And there are people out there who are so happy to say, I'm an atheist. |
Nigel: | I think it's rubbish and this and that and the other. So a really good one. yeah, that's a really good one is said atheists don't believe in fairies, leprechauns or unicorns because they don't exist. So what they hate and the reason they hate God is because God does exist. Yeah, I thought I really like that. Yeah. So we've got this situation current and it's been current for a long time. |
Nigel: | Centuries that Satan isn't after burying you in goodness knows what. Whatever. Yeah. He just wants you to not trust God, not to believe in God. And he's quite happy because people go, Well, I'm kind of on the fence or, or no, I don't believe in God. I think there's something bigger. I maybe, maybe, maybe spiritual. I'm spiritual or whatever, and Satan's gone. |
Nigel: | You're absolutely right. And you get people to endorse what you're saying and thinking. |
Liz: | The thing is, Satan knows. And it says in Romans, the wages of sin is death. So Satan knows if you keep. |
Nigel: | Now, I'll get now before you get on to that bit. But the point is, is just this acknowledgment of God is not about I'm not talking about sin. It's just this acknowledgment of God doesn't exist on the first thing. It doesn't exist. Secondly, there's no such thing as Satan. I mean, you applaud him for goodness sake. You know, he's got people to think that it doesn't even exist. |
Nigel: | It's all over the Bible. Yeah, he's he's the reason. He's the reason for all this grief. Yeah. And he's got people saying it doesn't exist. So all, all that Satan wants is for someone to go to their death at the end of their life. Perceiving and believing that God doesn't exist, and nor does He do what thou wilt do Your own thing. |
Nigel: | You're important. It's all about you, me, me, selfies, bloody snapchat, you know, all this kind of stuff, tok and videos and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. That's good. You could go. And if you want anything, well, do anything. You can, you know, go out, grab it, nap it to do whatever you want to do. Even, you know, all this grief in the world, people follow in religion. |
Nigel: | What nonsense Practice sent them away to like they do in Mexico. And then all of this money comes to them and they're thinking, this is great, happy with this, not going to follow the church. All that. All that's bought me is poverty. Go Yeah. Would be the Catholic Church, for goodness sake. So there's all this misinformation and distrust and everything else. |
Nigel: | And Satan, this is going great. Just stay where you are. |
Liz: | Well, isn't there a stage? You don't. They said that we've got this. Don't believe in God at all. Yeah. So that's at one end of that, you know, that's the atheist. And but then you've got in the middle of this those people that go to church. Yeah. But haven't been baptized because Satan is fed them. This line that you don't need to be baptized. |
Liz: | Yeah. And both both. |
Nigel: | From and also you don't need. |
Liz: | To repent from Satan. You can't. The only true message, the only truth is that repent, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. That's the only truth that you've got. Anything, anything outside of that means that you don't have a relationship with Jesus. |
Nigel: | Also, this thing about the fence, people think I'm on the fence about it or whatever, You know, I'm not going to do the whole baptism. I don't need to do that, you know? But I do believe I believe in God or I believe in this or I'm a really good person. What people don't realize is there is no fence. |
Nigel: | And every if you're baptized, you're in. Yeah, that's how if you're baptized, if you're not baptized and you're fighting it. And so. Well, according to the Bible, you know. Yeah. And that's it. End of story. Yeah. That, that was the deal That was the deal with the New Testament. Were after Jesus was that is was is and will continue to be the deal until and until revelation 22 because that's where it's another podcast. |
Nigel: | But that's where I think we're at with where everything's happened. We're right at the very end like very, very, very end. And I think pers personally, I, I feel that we've been compelled to do this and I was more recently we've come across some, some really, really compelling information that relates to end times, that relates to timelines. We do this next week. |
Nigel: | I won't talk about it this week, but we'll do it next week. So it's about the timelines and the urgency now. There's always urgency because everybody knows and it's a typical kind of thing that people trot out, which is, you could get hit by a bus tomorrow. |
Liz: | Yeah, I know that that happened to somebody just in the last couple of weeks. |
Nigel: | I know, I know. It's shocking. But it yes, we we've got people being injected in this sudden death and you've got the bus. Yeah. Take your pick. So you've you've got a situation where there is a sudden exit and so that that might be a visual. You know, you've got people sticking two fingers up to this to, to the podcasts like these. |
Nigel: | I know better. I'm better then I don't need all that stuff. Least they don't. Don't be so arrogant. You've just got to look at you know, that. The thing is, is that with this this faith journey that we've been on, so it's already 15 years. I say only because it's not been a lifetime. And we have watched and listened and read. |
Nigel: | Goodness knows how many books, hundreds, thousands of videos. And with every one we can we can accept or reject because of the sheer quantity that we've we've we've engaged with. We've looked at and spent weekends watching series. We're talking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of videos, thousands of hours. And we could we could where we are we and to the point where we're compelled to do a podcast or, you know, do the website. |
Nigel: | And so on, just, just on faith and what it means to to be a believer. And we've in our time, we've come across so many people that are so I run a mile from them. I, it's just like, no, no, you're not real. And we want this to we, we want to compel people to do something if and especially if you think you're going to have a supernatural exit, then you've got to have a supernatural activity that's going to precipitate that exit. |
Nigel: | And if you think it doesn't matter, you are most definitely wrong. And you know, and you. |
Liz: | Have to question your own and your own rationale behind that, why you would think it is not necessary to be baptized. You have to ask yourself that question Why? Why am I resisting What what is that blocker? Is it tradition? Is it because I was christened as a baby? |
Nigel: | You embarrassed, Embarrassed because if people around that they might they might think might call you a bit daft or whatever. |
Liz: | Yet you know what what is, what is the thing that is stopping you from being baptized Because when you when you are baptized it's, it's not plain sailing. I mean we know that. However, the thing is when you are baptized, you are now you are with, you are seated with, with Christ in the heavenly places you are. |
Nigel: | That that thing people talk about fam Yeah you are fam you are you are family. Yes there is that that there's this there is a change. There are people that you will connect with that will say, yep, yeah, I'm baptized. Right? Okay. Yeah. So that's one thing out the way. There are other things as you know. Let's we talk. |
Nigel: | I'll put it out there. This flat earth people go, you're talking nonsense. This in time says pre trip, post trip pre millennium, post millennium, pre tourism and all this all these or these things about to do with end times. I think it's all nonsense because I think we're potentially a few years away from something that might happen. |
Nigel: | If it happens, great If it doesn't, great. Yeah but and it but it's it's not being not melodramatic is the wrong word is it's not saying, well, let's all kick back because all of this is going to come to an end to an end at the end of 2026. America, Where did you get that from? Well, it's a long story telling next week. |
Nigel: | So but but the bottom line is, is that flat Earth as well, does it make any difference whether you go to Spain or not? Not no, not a lot of difference. And you ain't going to be picked up by Nasser to say, come and be our next space astronaut. Yeah, it's not happening. So it doesn't actually in your day to day doesn't make a blind bit of difference. |
Nigel: | But when it comes to the Bible, that's the kicker. Do you believe it or do not believe it? |
Liz: | You see that for me, that is really where my that's where I'm at because I think, you know, we know we're told that the and this the word that we have, the Bible that we have is by inspiration of God. And God's fingerprints all over it. I mean, it's just everywhere in the Bible, whether you look at the numerical significances, whether you look at the the prophecies or whether you look at things that happened. |
Liz: | And at the very beginning, there are parallels with Jesus's crucifixion and resurrection. You know, you look all of those things you said, what do we believe that this book that we read is true? Because I personally believe every word of it is true. Now, if you doubt any part of that word, whatever that word is, you know, let's talk about creation. |
Liz: | We'll just touch on it. If you think that that creation story is not as it is told to us, that it wasn't an actual six days. And I believe now this is what I thought that it wasn't actually and six days it was more like 6 billion years. It took God 6 billion years to create the Earth. Then surely if I don't believe that, what else don't I believe? |
Liz: | Yeah. So for me, if you don't believe what is in this in this book, one thing you don't believe, it undermines the rest, the integrity of the Bible. It just undermines the whole integrity of it. Because God tells us this is it's it's true because it is because it is written by him. His hand is across it. And you don't have to you don't have to go very far. |
Liz: | You know, you know, the early writers, the epistles, what you know, the gospels, how it all ties together. You know, you don't have to do very much research to think that they. How true is it? |
Nigel: | One of the things that that keeps popping up in my in my head is that if God created the Earth, Satan was sent down here as a prison and God is sovereign now. Yes. And does this does that as being bad done really even awful things. But his objective is to turn people away from God. That's it. Because he's got the needle with God. |
Nigel: | Okay, fine. But what he's not allowed to do is eradicate the word of God. He's not allowed. Let's do that. And therefore, the and we as human beings who have been made in God's image have been given this information in written format. And if you watch lots of films like I do Johnny Mnemonic with Keanu Reeves, he would try and he would transport data from one country to another by putting a USB into the back of his head. |
Nigel: | Now take that a little bit further. Why? Why didn't God just give us a download from birth and therefore therefore you know everything from the beginning of time to now jumped on didn't do that because there's this in nature. So we get bored. We have to find out and understand about sin, nature, yada, yada, yada. The only way we're going to find out is through understanding from people who actually have come before us to say, Come to church. |
Nigel: | Fancy to night and crack and you will learn about the Bible, you will learn about the big story, the gospel, the good news about you don't have to stay down. It was stuck with Satan because that's the deal. You ain't leaving here. |
Liz: | Now. |
Nigel: | If he's in prison here. So you that is the deal. If you want out and and one of the the illustrations I think is if you look at the Northern Lights and the Sardis and Onyx and Ruby Colors and the Saturn, the other half of the northern lights, that's where he is above that. |
Liz: | That's why there's a really good that's a really good description of what they are. |
Nigel: | And so here we are, we are down here. We have been given an opportunity to follow God to become a child of God, not just born in his, not just created in his image, but to qualify us as being children of God. Because most people, everyone is is created in his image. Most people are children of Satan and will stay that way. |
Nigel: | Yeah. So to become a child of God, you've got to read it and understand it and get baptized. Yeah, that's it. There's no don't argue with me. I mean, you can wait until he died and then go and argue with argue your case with Jesus. But he won't listen to you. |
Liz: | Yeah, I mean, I, I saw something in the, in that baptism thing that we chatted about this early, but this is what really struck me, Right? So the Catholic Church is big on the Eucharist. It's big on communion. Yeah. Yeah. Now we take communion fairly regularly at home. Just the two of us. |
Nigel: | Yeah. |
Liz: | Now what? This and this. This sermon said About what? One of the sermon said about baptism. And what it meant was that Jesus, there was a word and it said that you sleep with Jesus, that He will meet with you and sleep with you and if you go to Revelation and 320 it says, Behold, I stand at the door and knock. |
Liz: | If anyone here is my voice and opens the door, I will come into him and dine with him and he with me. Now that word dying or soap, it means literally sitting down and eating with you. Jesus will come in and sit down with you. Now, there are several instances where Jesus eats with So this the road to a mass. |
Nigel: | This is after crash. |
Liz: | This is the spiritual resurrection. So the road to a mass. Yeah, there is. When he appears to the disciples and they sit down and they give him fried fish and honeycomb. Yeah, you've got on the shores of Galilee, the whole mass. Yet in the hundred and 53 fish, he's on the shore and they don't recognize it, but they don't recognize him until he's there. |
Liz: | Yeah. So they don't. The the disciples on the road to a mass didn't recognize him until he actually broke bread with them. |
Nigel: | Yeah. |
Liz: | The disciples of the Apostles didn't recognize Jesus until he they sat down with him. Yeah. When they were eating and it was revealed to him. And so what I thought was really significant, although that document doesn't mention it, is that when you take communion, he's with you and he will come to you because you can be you can be with him. |
Liz: | You know, if you've allowed him, then he will come down and sit with you and eat with you. And so I can't I thought that was an interesting thing to do with communion. Whereas if you're a Catholic or you're a C of A and you're not born again, Jesus isn't with you, He's not supping with you at that point because you're not baptized, you're not you can't grafted into his family. |
Nigel: | You in this whole thing about this, about being baptized, about being sanctified, being made holy. Yeah. Means that you can exist in the presence of God if you are unholy, if you are tainted by sin, you cannot exist in the. |
Liz: | Presence of God. Come boldly to you can both literally. |
Nigel: | And when people say, you just say a prayer or salvation and think, you know, believe in your heart and speak with your mouth, you're good to go. It's like, But how, how, how can you be believing in your heart when you go when I get baptized, you can forget that. |
Liz: | No. |
Nigel: | And so if that all those three things believe in your heart. Speak with your mouth. You confess. Jesus, repent, get baptized, receive the Holy Spirit. These are the what? What? I don't. Just don't get it. How people are so lazy to the point where they are. If they've refused to find out what the score is, they've just accepted what some bloke dressed up in black or or some bloke spouting at the front is giving them. |
Nigel: | And yet they're not that they're not being is not being explained because it's not is about being taught about the Bible because of, but because of disciple discipleship. |
Liz: | There has to be a motivation. I mean I spent nearly 20 years in the of church, more or less than about age five or something until I left home. And we never talked about Satan was not talked about. I didn't think Satan existed. I thought in the wilderness Jesus dispensed with him and that was it. |
Nigel: | Yeah. |
Liz: | And so when you you come to your faith with that kind of rationale and you don't understand about evil and what evil is and why you have to be born again, so that you can you know, Jesus conquered that conquered death if you like. You know, he destroyed death because death came about because of sin. There was no death before there was sin. |
Nigel: | No. |
Liz: | You know, that's what it says in in Genesis. |
Nigel: | Yeah. |
Liz: | You know that that was the they were separated themselves from God because of sin. And and I don't know really how true this is, but I saw something this week and it was the parallels between the fall and Jesus's crucifixion. So it started off with the thorns on the crown were because there were going to be two thorns were it was thorns and thistles, wasn't it, that the ground would be crushed with the ground would be caused. |
Liz: | So there was the thorns, there was the and piercing of the hands. |
Nigel: | Yeah. |
Liz: | And because it was the hand that pulled the fruit off the, the tree, it was the, the piercing of the feet because it was Satan would be crushed and it would strike the heel and the side was the this because Eve came from Adam's side and so Jesus was and it was like, wow, I didn't ever think about it like that. |
Liz: | But this, this was just and it was just a clip that I saw actually on Instagram. And I thought. |
Nigel: | The thing is not so people read the Bible on a regular basis and people find so many different things that revealed to them when they when they read it and, you know, other people will read will read or hear that same story, that same with those different analogies of understanding the significance of them and, you know, the prosperity gospel. |
Nigel: | They come up with a whole raft of stuff like Creflo Dollar or whatever. You know, it's all hand your hands about making money were about walking about that that that the critical thing is that people must do this for themselves. It is for yourself. Yeah. You know, and if you are baptized then you can you can recommend it to anybody else. |
Nigel: | You cannot it cannot be something you keep to yourself. |
Liz: | No. |
Nigel: | You know, if you call family, children, grandchildren, it makes absolutely no sense to me for to keep it to themselves. And, you know, you talk about communion, then you look at communion within these different organized churches. I remember you saying to someone, yeah, we take communion almost every day. |
Liz: | Really? It was my mom. Nothing. |
Nigel: | Barbara's going to say that. But but it's like how? Why? We have a special person that you've got to be ordained or whatever. You've got to be, you know, not just a dish out. You got to be a special person. You got. I am. I'm baptized. I'm a child of God. I'm just. I'm as special as they come, I think. |
Nigel: | Yeah. There's no the and that's the hierarchy here. |
Liz: | Yeah. It's in now. In my church we had a the church that I went to that they introduced the because before this it was only we had a rector, we didn't have a vicar. I don't quite know what the difference. There's some kind of difference. We had a rector and, and he would do the bread and the wine so you would go up to the altar rail and you would receive the bread and the wine from the rector. |
Liz: | Now then I don't know how, when it was, when it happened, but they allowed laypeople within the church to give the wine. So it was the priests would give the the bread. And then somebody else who was at the. |
Nigel: | Wedding was it. |
Liz: | Was, you know, why was the and and there in little white discs they were used to stick to the reformer. Yeah. And and then this the other and the layperson would give out the wine now this caused grief in the church that I was in to the point that there were two or three men, the church that absolutely refused to take the wine afterwards. |
Liz: | And I remember and the reason I remember this so clearly was I was I had a boyfriend from the church and and his mum and dad went to the church and and the father was and his dad was a church warden. And when they brought this in from that day until he died, he never took communion again because he absolutely, categorically refused the classic and they refused to take the communion because and he would just sit at the back of the church in the soil. |
Nigel: | So. So he hasn't he hasn't he hasn't read his Bible? No, he's never learned his Bible. He's never inwardly digested anything in his Bible. And he's full of pride thinking that he can dictate terms to anything. Absolute nonsense. Absolute nonsense. And this is and this is what has Satan got him, you know, And this is the sad the really sad thing about it is that, you know, my parents and they didn't get baptized. |
Nigel: | They told us they, yeah, we're going to get baptized, get baptized, kept up. |
Liz: | Ties. |
Nigel: | So disciple and wrote and spoke and spoke to my dad virtually every day for eight months, eight or nine months, went up there to baptize them. They chased us off. Yeah, that wouldn't do it. And so, you know, and the both of them announced it over the past few years. 20, 20, 20, 21. They're both tight and it's like sake you can't, you can't tell some people, you know, and the, the attitude is maybe it was I'm your father. |
Nigel: | I know better than you. No, you don't. I'm 61. I was 50, whatever it was when I told him. And he agreed. He said to us then he said, Well, we have, mate, we've been talking about this and we both agree with you that we're both going to get out, we're both going to get baptized. |
Liz: | And then they didn't. |
Nigel: | And then they bottled it. So I've noticed that ain't no intention to. |
Liz: | Get to see them again. You have to say you have to ask yourself. And, you know, I urge anybody that's listening to this that isn't baptized, and I know it sounds a bit of a cliche. Certainly she harp. Why are you not doing it? Yeah, why are you not making that commitment before God and before a witness? You know, the thing is, you need to you really need to. |
Liz: | I know people have baptized themselves, but you really. You have to do it before a witness. Yeah, you have to have a witness. So somebody needs to baptize you. And that's kind of a legal requirement. There has to be a witness. |
Nigel: | So within within the bar. And another thing is if you're if you live around middle England, where in Staffordshire, you know, to get in touch with this, A will baptize you. |
Liz: | Yeah, for sure. And because the thing is the thing is you have to do you have to find out for yourself, you know, why are you not doing it? |
Nigel: | And if you're anywhere else you go to, if you, if you have a if you're connected to a church that does baptism, if you can, it's church that doesn't get out of it yet. And if you're connected to a church that does demand, they do it immediately. |
Liz: | Yeah. |
Nigel: | Yeah. This is, this is a matter of urgency. Yeah. And say do it immediately. Yeah. I don't care what you do. I'm not waiting six months. |
Liz: | Yeah, you can phone this. I mean, if you want. |
Nigel: | But no, we're talking about family church if they're interested. You're in a church. If you're down in Brighton, you know, you're not going to, you're probably not going to schlep up to up to up to Staffordshire. But if you, you know, wherever you are, you demand from your pastor or you if you look at the last reformation, find people on the website, a website last reformation. |
Nigel: | Taylor Go on to there. You can find people on there who will come and baptize you. |
Liz: | Yeah. |
Nigel: | And that's, that's I mean, we're on there, so and as soon as we moved up here, I got in touch with this and said, Well, you bet. Yep. Straight away. Bang. Yep. Two days later came around, got baptized, had lunch, had lunch, then got baptized. Yeah. Yeah. But I think so that's, that's, that's our, our thing about baptism. |
Nigel: | I think we've, we've, we've, we've hammered that one home about baptism if we want to refer anybody to want to listen to a podcast about baptism, this is going to be it. It's like as you're told. Yeah. And if anybody's got a question, any questions? I've said this before, go on to our website. You can messages, you can contact us. |
Nigel: | We're very, very contactable because we believe the most important thing is for you to get baptized and then take it from there. Yeah, Yeah. That's, that's critical. And it's not about turning up to some church our past, our past ten every Sunday morning. It's not about that. It's about how you live and what you understand. And that's the most important thing. |
Nigel: | The most important takeaway from this is that you get baptized and you follow and you live properly. Yeah, that's it. |
Liz: | That's the thing is new. And then just as a kind of a bookend to that, because once you're baptized, you've repented and you're baptized, you receive the Holy Spirit. The thing is, all of those all of that and those accusations against you are gone. Yeah, they are gone. They have taken away. It says he has made a life together with him having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirement that was against us, which was contrary to his. |
Liz: | And he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross, having disarmed principalities and powers, he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them in it. The point is, Jesus did that for you. |
Nigel: | And and if you as another kind of analogy, if you went to court and you swear on the Bible, you swear that what you're going to say is true and so on. So take that to a slightly end degree. So I have a Bible in front of me right here. Now, I would never swear on the Bible about anything but you can hear it. |
Nigel: | You can it it gives you this right to swear on the Bible and say that yours at once you get baptized. Once you repent, you apologize and you repent and you get baptized. And we receive the Holy Spirit. That is a right. That is a guarantee. It is a promise from God that your sins are forgiven. Now, even if somebody in the world okay, if you have to get this, even if somebody in the world says you did X, Y, and Z before you go, you can look at them squarely. |
Nigel: | I go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been in mine. I've, I've been. I've been forgiven, I've repented. I won't be doing it again. And I swore on the Bible, I brother, I've got baptized and I'm good to go. They might want to come back at you. Go. Yeah. Just because you've done X. Just because you've done why? It's like, No, no, I have done that. |
Nigel: | And it is the truth is the absolute truth. I been forgiven. Thing is, you've got people in prison. We know we've got people in prison, people that have done some really bad things in the past, but they've they've understood, repented, got baptized, and now they're followers of Jesus in prison. |
Liz: | Yeah. And they're free. |
Nigel: | They are free. Their sins have been forgiven. Well, the world says you've got another five years to go before we let you out. So what? They have been forgiven. And that's the deal about this. And so, you know, we really do urge you to understand this on the inside. And don't don't take too long about it. |
Liz: | No. |
Nigel: | I think I think we're good to go now. And I think we can we can we can publish. This one. |
Liz: | Yeah. |
Nigel: | And I didn't I I'm I'm saying this now. I think last week we said we were going to do the time line. |
Liz: | Yep. So I've made a note this next week we'll do the time line. |
Nigel: | Yeah. We definitely got to the timeline, but the baptism is actually more important than the timeline. So I thought that was worthwhile to, you know, we'll have a wonderful week this goodbye for me and have have a great week. I hope you join us next week. |
Liz: | And be blessed and have a really great week. But for me, for. |
